KALEIDOSCOPE

NOTHING'S EASY

London-based VEGYN is something of a prodigy, having produced music for the likes of Frank Ocean, founded his own record label, and doubled as a graphic designer. Though he has distinguished himself within the electronic music arena, which is oversaturated to the point of numbness, he remains level-headed about exactly what it is he wants to accomplish, and the realities of making work in an often inhospitable world.

CYRUS GOBERVILLE:

I’d like to talk about your label first (PLZ Make It Ruins). It’s amazing to see a successful artist return to the extremely underground process of how artists emerge. I had the chance to interview two artists signed on your label, John Glacier a few months ago for KALEIDOSCOPE, and also pigbaby— this guy is crazy good. I know that his identity is, let’s say, unknown, but you gave him the chance to have a second life right?

VEGYN:

Yeah. He got reincarnated as a pig.

CG:

Exactly. And how do you envision these artists’ music as part of the label?

Well, it’s not necessarily a very straightforward process. It’s always very different. A lot of the time it’ll be someone I know—perhaps a mutual friend will share somebody’s music. And then, honestly, at least for me, you can usually tell in the first five seconds whether you want to listen to something for the next two, three minutes or whatever.

Or for the rest of your life.

And for the rest of your life. Yeah, exactly. And I think what I look for in particular is maybe a sense of honesty, or just someone that’s putting themselves out there and maybe willing to take a couple risks. And it doesn’t really sound like anything else. I find people get a bit too caught up, myself included, in trying to make things that sound like other people, because you think that’s going to open certain doors or make some things easier. But I’m convinced at this point that if you jump on somebody else’s bandwagon, then nobody can jump on yours. I really do like it when something catches you off guard or surprises you, or feels very distinct in its sound or world-building. Because that’s the hardest thing to find.

First listening to pigbaby’s record, I didn’t know what to expect. I was like, “Okay, is it good or bad?”—you give it a try, and then a unique feeling catches your brain with Palindromes.

It’s genuine. And typically the feedback that I get from people is, “Wow, this is bad. I love it.” And I mean that in the nicest way possible. From the YouTube comments to whoever.
I did a radio show with Mike D from the Beastie Boys recently, and I played him one of the pigbaby tracks. He went back and listened through it all afterwards. He was like, “Yeah, it’s really bad, but I really love it. It’s a really great record.” I don’t think people get obsessed with things being perfect, with things being immaculate. I think to err is to be human. A lot of my process, at least with releasing my own music—that’s why I like releasing these mix tapes—is as much to get over that idea of perfection as it is to just let people into the hard drive.

Yeah. That’s what you did on your last album, right? There are 75 tracks on Don’t Follow Me Because I’m Lost Too!! (2022)

Yeah. And the last mixtape before that is 71, because at that point, it doesn’t really matter. And maybe I don’t even like all of them. That doesn’t matter. But then maybe somebody will. Who am I to judge? I’m not even trying to judge myself. It’s like a quality over quantity thing, where it’s almost like, yeah, of course you’re not going to like all of them. That would be insane.

Your approach here is very interesting. You don’t like all the tracks you’re releasing?

At least I like most of it. Sometimes you don’t need to understand something in order to appreciate it. But they’re just there for the people that want it. I try not to overthink it too much and just try to go off of what the heart is feeling rather than the brain. I think a lot of the time the brain can over-complicate things. Well, also, I guess releasing that much music, the technology today kind of allows for it. Part of the joy for me is realising “Oh, this is so much music. You literally can't fit it on one cassette. It has to be two.” But it’s well suited for streaming - it’s got that in mind. You can just hit skip if you don't like it.

The album is made for the new broadcasting technologies for music.

But I’m a huge fan of analog. I’ve actually just changed my work process quite a lot. For a long time, was in the box. I was just in the computer all the time, and I got very, very bored of making music that way. There’s nothing wrong with that. Some of the best music in the world has been made on a portable speaker and just a laptop. I’m just speaking about my personal preference here—but I find it easier to generate sounds that I like (away from a computer screen).

So there’s this tension in the music between what could be good taste and what is bad taste, but in the end, it’s just good because it’s sharp and easy. I feel the same with John Glacier, especially in her writing process. Both of you have some things in common right?

Yeah, we were the two anxious people crushing our cups at the back of the party. We would always just chat, because we were both like, “Why are we here?” A friend played me some of her music, and I was just like, “Who is this?” And then our mutual friend Cajm told me, “Oh yeah that’s John, you two are always talking to each other, so I figured you knew already. Didn’t you know?” After that began a long process of just us getting to know each other properly. It started with her sharing my studio space when I wasn’t there. But the project finally came together when I realised my lease was almost up on my studio. Two weeks later, all the writing for SHILOH was done. I like to work very quickly and it felt like she had a lot of things that she needed to say.

George Riley’s album Running In Waves was just released on your label, and it’s magnificent. It’s a short album you’ve produced for her, full of hope and sadness. It’s so sad! But your projects are always sad, no?

To me, it’s not necessarily directly sadness.

No, no. It’s melancholy.

I think about this a lot—how do you inhabit a space that is neither happy nor sad? Just because life’s more complicated than that.
Juxtaposition in art is what’s interesting. George is an amazing writer. She can write very, very quickly. We had a similar time limit to SHILOH in that I was only in London for a certain period of time, and so we just got to work. We wrote all the tracks in about a week and a half, and then finished it over the next month or so. We got some string arrangements done and...

Then it’s done.

And it’s done. You really don’t need to spend that much time on things. People really obsess, and I see that a lot in younger artists too. When I tell that to people, they’re like, “Yeah, you’re an idiot. You don’t know.” But it really doesn’t matter how much time you’ve spent on something. It’s like, does it connect? A lot of the time the things that I make relatively effortlessly are the things that have the real power to them. I think that’s because there was very little thought involved. There was no inner monologue.

Wait, but it is hard, though?

Yeah. Nothing’s easy. You have to do the work. Really, it’s a lot easier to live an unconscious lifestyle. It’s very much encouraged too. We all have these very small reserves of dopamine that are constantly being tapped. It is kind of funny because I guess with music I like playing keys, because you end up just making mistakes. To me that’s where the inter- esting stuff happens. When you’re playing something for the 50th time and then you get a chord wrong, then that chord that then goes into something else.

You went to art school?

No. But I did an art foundation course in graphic design.

Were you into all the Ed Banger crew back in the days?

Yeah. And I love those guys. I’ve been playing SebastiAn a lot in my DJ sets recently. It’s really interesting to me as it feels like folks really seem to have the appetite for it again. To be honest, I think of Electro as pre-credit-crunch music. Because it felt like it was made for a certain kind of lifestyle at the time. I was too young to be going out and indulging in actual club culture, but it allowed me instead to fantasise about it. Then we had the financial crisis, and everyone, for better or worse, discovered dubstep.

Yeah. And I think with COVID, people rediscovered Burial a lot. It’s maybe a state of mind.

Oh yeah. Depression is a good one for discovering new music. Sometimes it’s just, you’ve got to be in the right place and the right time, and then something will come along that resonates on a much deeper level.

And what do you think about London these days? Do you still go out?

Oh, dawg. I don’t leave the house. I got no reason to go out. I like London for that reason, because it’s mostly cold, horrible and grey. I can just stay inside all day and not feel bad about it. I like making music and getting to share that with other people. That’s one of the things that brings me joy. I don’t drink anymore. I don’t do drugs anymore. There’s not much reason for me to go out.

Is your label mainly digital-oriented?

Actually almost all the of the releases on PLZ Make It Ruins are available physically in some way too. I think it’s a good way to do things. It’s nice to come away from a release with something that’s tangible. I know what it’s like to be an artist. I really don’t particularly have any interest in owning people’s masters or be- ing seen as any kind of ... And I absolutely hate the term cultural curator. I’m just a facilitator. And as the label’s grown, the capacity for things has grown. But nobody’s my artist. They’re all their own. They’re all telling their own stories. I don’t want to have ownership over anyone. People get all the rights to their music back, because as an artist, that’s your retirement.
Look, I don’t want to deter people from signing deals with major labels or other indies or whatever, because it’s all about infrastructure. It’s like when people say they hate Comic Sans. Well, if you love Comic Sans, you’re an idiot. If you hate Comic Sans, you’re an idiot too. It just depends on where you are using the font and what it’s doing for you. And it’s the same thing with record deals. Obviously, if you are a certain kind of artist, you are going to need a certain level of infrastructure. They might be taking a larger percentage, but then they might also be able to give you proper push your career needs. People just need to figure out what it is that is right for them, not right for their manager or their lawyer or their publisher, etc. That’s why I started PLZ. To try to create a platform that makes sense for a certain kind of artist. It’s crazy to me as we are actually fast approaching the 10 year anniversary.

We’re all getting old.

We’re all getting old. And all the best labels die. And all dogs go to heaven. But something always remains. And for me that’s the music. It’s this ever-evolving story. I just want to contribute to that conversation and be a part of the story. And then hopefully somebody else finds that inspiring. Somebody hears it and then they make something that then inspires somebody else, and so on and so forth. For me, I want to continue to do what I love. I get to support people that I respect. I get to build out this thing and work with people that I adore and admire and it doesn’t need to get any bigger. It’s perfectly fine. If it gets bigger, that’s great. We’re ready for it. If it gets smaller, okay. Maybe that’s a problem. But at the same time, things will just naturally grow and develop. I make this joke a lot at the moment: “I’m here for a time. Not a good time.”

What are your upcoming projects?

To close out the year we have Double Virgo, a band with two friends of mine from South that I produced earlier this year. And there’s John Keek, a singer-songwriter freak from Vegas but who lives in LA.
Very, very fun, good music.

Good. And on your side?

Next year, perhaps something a little bit more focused. 12 tracks rather than 75.

VEGYN (Joe Thornalley) was born and remains based in London. Since 2013, they’ve released and produced a number of albums, as well as founded the label, PLZ Make it Ruins.

Cyrus Goberville is a French curator, head of cultural programs at the Bourse de Commerce—Pinault Collection, Paris, and editor-at-large of KALEIDOSCOPE, Milan.

ALL CLOTHING: BOTTEGA VENETA

PHOTOGRAPHY: MOTOYUKI DAIFU

STYLING BY TATSUYA SHIMADA

CREATIVE DIRECTION: ALESSIO ASCARI

HAIR: HAYATE MAEDA

MAKEUP: YUKA HIRAC

PRODUCTION: BABYLON

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